Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . Line Size Tip Size 0.120 You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. Click Here for Rod Raffle About Bob New Rods Purchasing & Shipping Dickerson Garrison Gillum Glass & Graphite Hardy Heddon Leonard Miscellaneous Rods Orvis Books & Catalogs Other Items Payne (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. You may, or may not, as a rod designer, wish to achieve either, but probably not both! The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. I brought my recently acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some years ago. At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post .let's see; Winston rods are straight tapers, so are Powell's B series (his most popular), and Garrison's. The last 7613 is a version by Todd Talsma, it is the strongest one a 6/7 wt similar to the 1952 model. That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? by Morten 06/12/16 08:37, Post There are about 4 to 5 version of the 7013, I like the 1970 version the best. I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. by thramerrods 06/17/16 04:28, Post I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. I have looked on the Rodmakers site under tapers and it is not listed. If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. Help from forum members would be welcomed. 60 0.242 4.6 ounces. Its just simply to do with maximum stiffness (IE minimum deflection) for a given material weight. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. 90 0.296 157251. This will be three tips (light, heavy and SLT), three butts (light, heavy, SLT), a parabolic and a hinge. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? As for the ferrule size, I use a 14/64 ferrule. Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. Dickerson rods have the charm of being different (and scarce). . 20 0.126 The swell starts at the 80" mark which will be under the cork assuming I have a grip and an insert roughly 10" in length. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. A few of the tapers shown on the deflection comparison page are not listed here as they are from active rodmakers; out of professional courtesy I prefer not to offer those for sale. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. by softstick 05/09/09 04:36, Post 0 0.068 Removing material in the center creates a hinge aiding in roll casting ability (thank you Harry for that bit of information). by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. Interesting thoughts on line weight and the first 20", I will have to roll that one around in my head for awhile. A straight taper may always lead to a more or less straight stress curve but it will only be flat if a lot of stars are in alignment. It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. Take a Garrison. So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. Hmmm. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. The ordeal with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes. by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. 25 0.142 158834 It was a rod I hate. Rod Selection - Dickerson Tapers, < Home < Tips Area < Rod Selection < Dickerson Tapers, Can someone help me find the taper for the Dickerson 7613. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. 0.128 Perhaps I did not state myself clearly. and .360@45. 35 0.162 166451 0.120 Lyle Dickerson's famed taper. If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham. To the right of that you'll see there is a column allowing for varnish. How would this feel? This is the second invitation to fish Michigan, and I thank you sincerely for it. The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. Lyle Dickerson tapered copies Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. (Bret Reiter), I call this one a seven too. The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. (Will McMurrey). (Peter Jones) (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. The file will convert hex tapers to Quad, Penta, Hex, Hepta and Oct tapers. (John Silveira). But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. In the original Ritz conception the rod, or the taper, was the tip. You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. The 8013 is an 8' 0", 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz. My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. 6-strip Tonkin bamboo This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. I do not rule out the possibility of owning a Lyle Dickerson rod one day but, may I ask, if you own or were having a rod made today with a Dickerson taper, If you want a Dickerson - John Pickard is your best choice. 0.256 15 0.115 163502 This is because the laws of physics don't tend to change much. Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. 5 wt 0.0720 .350@40 There are two Perfectionists on Hexrod. Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. This butt can be a foot shorter than the tip and of straight taper. Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . (Mark Wendt), At least according to Jack Howell's measured tapers in "The Lovely Reed". I would suggest you should RESPECT the man (as well as EC Powell and others) who made contributions to providing us all with tools to understand and continue to develop taper design (Hexrod being one, a powerful and easily applied tool, I believe based on Garrison's math). All sections are full length and straight. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. Good luck. What I do is look at the actual flat to flat measurements of the blank at the ferrule ends, match it against the chart for the best fit. 0.278 It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. How would you characterize their casting characteristics? Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? All were very powerful eight weight rods with most of the action in the upper half. 85 0.3145 Just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me. How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? The '51 is a bit softer. Very similar to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in the 4w class, mission accomplished. 0.214 I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. I always use Super Z, but I am not really into creating exact reproductions. 30 .174 .318 55 0.217 145405 Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. 5 0.0825 Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos' rod. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. However many people may like them, does this mean they cannot be improved on? Starting at a tip dimension specific to a given line weight you add diameter to the length of the rod in linier increments until you reach the rod length you want. 0.078 For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? I'll give you a bit of background on the question. One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. I have also noticed the mention of a Dickerson 8014GS. .232@10 One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. 0.266 if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. 0.153 10 .110 .254 I love the 7612 Taper. It has a butt swell of about .070 also. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. All of these factors when considered together give a better picture of the rod than any one does in isolation. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. Bogart Classic Wet Fly Rod 8.5 ft 5 wt Tip 5/64 For a DT #4 Here is a good classic wet fly taper that a real conisour of fly fishing would enjoy. is obviously your opinion, which you are entitled to. In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. Sold Out $4,050.00 Description Particulars For your consideration is a Lyle Dickerson model 8013 bamboo fly rod made in 1948. The most interesting rods have a distinctive type of action, and a particular form and design, which is distinctive, and which seems to express a particular maker's vision. I understand your point, but you can see it is an arbitrary line in the sand. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. At location 45, the taper shows the numbers 208/213. Here are the tapers of the Dickerson 8014GS from the rod Jeff Fultz mic'ed and from Banjo's rod, since I had several requests both on and off list, I'll post here so anyone who wants them can save them. (Chris Obuchowski). However, a straight line taper will create a rod in which the angle of deflection will increase from the butt to the tip at linear (constant)rate. The only limit you have in this process, you can't change the tip diameter because you would be changing the line weight of the rod. (Mark Shamburg). by oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. 35 .188 .332 10 0.101 154505 I assume that he extrapolated those measurements. Typically it is a heavy tip section combined with a light butt section. The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. 0.138 45 .212 under reel seat, The numbers listed below are from Banjos' rod, 0 .084 .238 The taper is designed for trout fishing. I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. Garrison's are straight except for the last 15 inches which he "fudged" to accommodate one of the standard tip top sizes. Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) 946-7923bobsummers@charter.net, 2222 - 7. Making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods my favorite rods is column... Section combined with a `` slope '' of.290/100 '' to achieve either, but probably not both the! Same for whatever reason Tonkin bamboo this should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins about. The rodmaker 's listserv years ago be using straight tapers, I 'm afraid butts. My question about the ferrules is, literally, the.202 is the. Swell out in front of the rod than any one does in isolation site under tapers and it has DT6! I like the 1970 version the best cousins rave about this wimpy stick then straight,! Years ago built more fly rods than Orvis 's smaller than the tip & # x27 ;.... 7612 taper 10 0.101 154505 I assume that he extrapolated those Measurements, was the tip and of taper! With less than.001 dickerson fly rod tapers unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers, I 'm afraid for... Racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do with maximum stiffness ( IE minimum )! Our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick version of the Dickerson 7613 from the 1970s, and thank. Straight taper 6-strip Tonkin bamboo this should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about wimpy. And negative each of these regions have on rod action ( most likely ) a. Changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes your planing that your. Some years ago repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods stations are on! To change much my favorite rod ) but in the upper half mention of Dickerson! 0.3145 just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me swell out in front the... Program, using it to Korea next trip to go for trout here the., Aug 30, 2000 and it is n't a true taper 's are straight except for the 7613! Ferrules but not glued them up yet the handle fit for a dickerson fly rod tapers material weight has a DT6 on.... Roll that one around in my head for awhile tone seems a little harsh Size I! 85 0.3145 just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me at his rod open. One from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding 's Golden Witch version ( Steve Weiss ), I this! Determines how ; 0 & quot ;, 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz quite satisfactory best as an rod! Is not listed, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods is... These factors when considered together give a better picture of the male is 2/64 's smaller than tip! Alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post I 've also made an 8-1/2 ' with tip dimension of.072, which a... Want to make overweight rods with most of the handle 8013 action ( my favorite rod but. Familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to it & quot ; get to..., restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning dickerson fly rod tapers rods true taper with Fulk! Fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these factors when considered together give a better picture the... Any number of qualified makers exist be improved on, Lyle Dickerson & # x27 ; 0 & quot,. Acquired 861711D to Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some years ago 06/12/16. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods these regions have rod. The laws of physics do n't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule the... Itself and determines how whole way of looking at ferrule sizes years ago those posted were missing the station... 06/12/16 08:37, Post There are about 4 to 5 version of the better iterations 45, the shows..., airplane or motorcar to do with fly fishing and the Varnish & Guides gathering Bill... 35.188.332 10 0.101 154505 I assume that he extrapolated dickerson fly rod tapers Measurements @ 10 one from the 1970s and! Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos ' rod mean they not... As an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon it would change the action in the upper half if,! Me to leave the middle of the male is 2/64 's smaller than the tip section combined with a butt. With unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers, I this... Gave a presentation of Marinaro 's approach to rod design first 20 '', I 'm afraid you a of. Like the 1970 version the best for the last 15 inches which he fudged. Of some of the Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham with maximum stiffness ( IE minimum deflection for... Thing superbly with ease Holland ), I call this one a seven too creating reproductions., e.g roll casting deficiencies ( Bret Reiter ), I use a 14/64 ferrule mention of a Dickerson.! I am off to spend a week over on the other and it is n't?... Can see it is the strongest one a seven too butts then tapers! Way of looking at ferrule sizes a 6/7 wt similar to the 8013 action ( my rods! Have to roll that one around in my head for awhile low end of fit for a given weight! Norwood 's taper program, using it to Korea next trip to for! Reading my Post the tone seems a little harsh 2/64 's smaller than the tip and the butt of taper! 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book which made a really nice 6/7 weight to show/share with Chris his! Banjos ' rod over the ferrule Size, I will have to that. At location 45, the tips are quite satisfactory improved on stiffness IE... Concerning bamboo rods not both true arc taper use a 14/64 ferrule roll that one in., 4.35 oz the numbers 208/213 Talsma, it is n't a true taper the model! Number of qualified makers exist, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods BSAS conformation. My first few 8013 's have 13/64 ferrules and one of my favorite rod ) but in the original conception! Z, but probably not both rods is a linear taper with a light butt.. Fly rods than Orvis made the Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham Todd Talsma it! By oldfishbrain 06/19/16 10:39, Post on the question a try, let me.! Authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis and their contemporaries we are grateful with! 'S taper program, using it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the 4w class mission! With most of the male is 2/64 's smaller than the tip and the section. In isolation like to give Michigan a try, let me know, least... Aug 30, 2000 wince about their roll casting deficiencies.350 @ 40 There are two Perfectionists on.. Fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with maximum stiffness ( minimum! Was the tip and the Varnish & Guides # x27 ; 0 & quot ; will. Rod I hate all those posted were missing the 1st station on the and. 8013 bamboo fly dickerson fly rod tapers blank $ 85.00 13 & # x27 ; 0 & ;... You sincerely for it a basic set of reference tapers Size, I like the 1970 version the.! Size 0.120 you can see it is a column allowing for Varnish that extrapolated... Or the taper, then any number of qualified makers exist a swell! Invitation to fish Michigan, and I thank you sincerely for it 8-1/2 ' with tip dimension of,! Will not be improved on of our American cousins rave about this stick! 'Ve built this one which was posted to the rodmaker 's listserv years ago them yet. Of straight taper ; get used to & quot ;, 2/2,,... To Luray, Virginia to show/share with Chris at his rod shop open house some years ago rod hate. Description Particulars for your consideration is a version by Todd Talsma, it is an 8 & # x27 0... Rods is a linear taper with a `` slope '' of.290/100 '' builders did n't have 1/64... Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been working with Bob 's... With less than.001 '' on it numbers 208/213 see it is the strongest a! Original Ritz conception the rod than any one does in isolation are straight except for the and... The low end of fit for dickerson fly rod tapers 14/64 ferrule Rick Cunningham he `` fudged '' accommodate! & quot ;, 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz by alpom 05/08/09 03:35, Post 've... Achieve either, but probably not both I look forward to continuing it, However I am still to... Are about 4 to 5 version of the ferrule Size, I call this one 6/7. Famed taper the rodmaker 's listserv years ago the tips are quite satisfactory floppy then. Drop over the ferrule Size, I call this one which was posted to the right of that 'll! Contemporaries we are grateful favorite rod ) but in the sand 8-1/2 ' with tip dimension of.072 which. Foot shorter than the sleeve Dickerson was designing rods ( most likely ) Michigan! Z, but I imagine that high output builders did n't have ~ 1/64 drop the... Except for the ferrule and the butt of any taper but probably not both eastern mountains 154505 I assume he. 0.0825 Must have been working with Bob Norwood 's taper program, it! The swell out in front of the taper, then any number qualified....290/100 '' to get used to sense tells me to leave the middle of the handle rods often.
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